Dr. André Villeneuve
Associate Professor of Old Testament and Biblical Languages • Sacred Heart Major Seminary
- Hey David, I couldn't agree with you more. It's a business for them not a ministry. I understand they have to earn money but they sure do rake everyone!
- I recognize that resources for Logos are more expensive than Kindle. If I am only going to read a book once and put it away, I will buy Kindle. However, if I want to be able to search for information within the book, I will pay more for the Logos version for the ability to quickly locate something. Time isn't money, but when I am preparing a sermon or a lesson, being able to search within Logos is a big time saver.
- The whole NICOT/NICNT series is on sale for $700 at Olive Tree Bible today. That's only 38% of Logos' price! Logos is a great product but why are their prices so outrageous? I wonder how many customers they lose because of their poor pricing strategy. I will NEVER pay so much money for a digital commentary.
- Yes, $36 would be much better!
- For sure! I would be willing to pay $60. After all, it did take some work to put it into their digital format with all the tags and links etc. to work within Logos. But, $119.99??? C'mon. It's pretty clear to me that all are subject to greed and Faithlife is no different. They also know that there really isn't a competitor - Accordance just isn't there if you ask me- you can switch to, so they feel free to capitalize on your dependence. Pretty sad commentary for a "Christian" company if you ask me. So, we'll continue to make someone even richer than they already are and life will move on. I sure hope they enjoy all that money.
- The comments above are not ignoring the questions on pricing, nor are they up-selling anyone. It is both wise and courteous to at least have a clue if someone who posts actually WORKS for Logos. They were both trying to educate you, but they used just words. I will use more. Here is a link to a set which lists for $249 and it's from 1903 or 6, I forget. It's also in public domain and can be downloaded as 5 large .PDF files at a cost of $0. Go look at the link, then conduct a web search with the terms "download" AND ".PDF" and you'll find a number of sites. Guess what else? Logos could care less if you turned all those .PDF's into 5 MS Word docs and build you own resources and they would be added to your library and work like any other resource. This, however, presumes the knowledge to create this books is known or learned. Logos has free tutorials. I'll tell you all something else. I attached a snapshot of what is part of my library, it not only includes the $249.0 5 volumes, it also includes the 2 $199 volumes and guess what? The 5 $249 volumes for $249, have about 85% of what is included in the two updated $119 volumes. Granted the older FREE PUBLIC domain download was done before the DSS scrolls, but the works are still incredible AND FREE! https://www.logos.com/product/4237/the-apocrypha-and-pseudepigrapha-of-the-old-testament-in-english Not only that, the first two volumes (this presumes the snapshot attachment I took and attached can be seen, I've never done that in all my years around here. Books 1 & 2 are are $99 for both, but they provide the origin Greek MSS's with Morphology. I presume since each of you are so skilled in maters of finance and the cost of what you think good shall be, each of you are fluent and at $99 to have all that, I think all of you would agree that's fair. Lastly, my search brought up 27 books and excluding about 5 (that leaves 22) anyone here like to guess what I paid for the Logos 6 Ancient Texts and Translations Bundle, XL? A. $500 $22.72 PER BOOK? B. $800 $36.36 PER BOOK C. $1,500 $68 PER BOOK IF AND i SAID IF, IT'S C: $1,500, I PAID FOR THE 22 BOOKS WELL, I GUESS THAT WOULD NOT BE GOOD ENOUGH, BUT, IF I PAID $800 $36.36 SEEMS TO BE UP THERE AS "MUCH BETTER,' WOULD IT WORK? Probably too old for comments., but before you accuse a Christian company of greed, you first need to have the knowledge to actually know how to make purchases from Logos,. you need to know how to build books from .PDF's with all the TOC links and Logos provides free training and allows you to add an upload what you built even if they sell it. Lastly, if anyone things I am making up the choices in A, B, or C., that's easy. Should that be said, well., it's very easy to take a snapshot of your order history and the order number. Education is a good this for Brothers and Sisters In Christs, baseless insults like I read and the accusations, would have made Paul consider the Corinthians mile and they were a messed up church.
- The work is very large and has to be tagged fully for Logos integration. That is time consuming and costs. The amount your are paying is not for text of these works, but for the work to make it extremely useful with all the power of Logos.
- I am really disappointed/frustrated at how consistently overpriced Logos resources are. Even with an academic "discount" these two e-dictionaries end up being more expensive than the price of the hard copy on Amazon. It seems to me that without any printing or distribution costs, electronic copies should be considerably more affordable... This seems to be the norm with Kindle books but, unfortunately, rarely if ever with Logos ones.
- You are correct Pedro. But that is all included in the price of the platform minus all the books. Just the Gold edition is $1,550.00. Most of those books are public domain so you are really paying for all of the features because those public domain books are pennies on the dollar. Very little scholarly stuff. Anyway, it still doesn't justify the cost of these books. I had student discount and have Baker Exegetical Comm. and with the student discount it still came to like $43.00 for the book of Galatians. Perhaps Logos ought to lower their prices and make it more affordable.
- Pedro, I am not going to argue, but all you have to do is go to Amazon or cbd.com and see for yourself. Here is an example: 1) Logos price for Acts for BECNT - https://www.logos.com/product/31029/baker-exegetical-commentary-on-the-new-testament-acts. $54.99 2) Baker Book House - http://www.bakerbookstore.com/product/367299/Acts. $54.99. the same price Logos sells their digital version for. The e-book edition is $41.24. Almost $15 cheaper 3) Amazon.com - http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Acts+(Baker+Exegetical+Commentary+on+the+New+Testament)&rh=i%3Aaps%2Ck%3AActs+(Baker+Exegetical+Commentary+on+the+New+Testament). Acts is only on Kindle right now, but it prices at $31.49. At least $10 cheaper than Baker and $20 cheaper than Logos. 4) cbd.com - http://www.christianbook.com/acts-baker-exegetical-commentary-new-testament/darrell-bock/9780801026683/pd/026683?event=ESRCG. $36.99. Almost a $20 difference between Logos and cbd.com.
- I can´t compare Kindle vs. Logos as I said (in addition,I have no more place in my library for print books, then a print book is a "non-option", unless I must buy someone). But, ok, see this: Amazon $153.50 (http://www.amazon.com/Gender-Reversal-Cosmic-Chaos-Ezekiel/dp/0826462243) vs. Logos $27.95 (https://www.logos.com/product/9706/gender-reversal-and-cosmic-chaos-a-study-on-the-book-of-ezekiel). But, what must we say? "but test everything; hold fast to what is good;" (1 THESSALONIANS 5.21) Blessings to everyone.
- I Have always appreciated the value of not only reading any books but I am especially grateful for the way all Logos books are integrated and can work together as one giant book connecting all thoughts found anywhere in my library and giving me a much better understanding of any word anywhere in my collection. That is why I do not haggle the price.. It's a great program that adds value to any resource..
- The notes (two volumes worth!), however, are not public domain and they are one of most useful parts of Ginzberg's work. Without the notes you have now idea where the various 'legends' are coming from. I don't have this work in my library, so I don't know if it includes the notes. But if it does have the notes, it's very much worth it, as the public domain versions aren't very useful without the footnotes.
Jeremiah — EditedIt seems the references are included. There's a footnote after each paragraph or handful of sentences; the footnote provides the reference, often several of them supporting the same bit of information, i.e. Sotah 12B, pirkey Avoth 4A, etc. Just flipping through I was pleasantly surprised to find on one of the footnotes an editorial note saying he checked the resource the author referenced and could find no such story. In this particular case there were other references (Josephus, etc) which did check out. Seems quite thorough documenting sources in the 30 minutes I've spent with it so far.
- Verbum/Logos is obviously an outstanding product for study and research - there is no doubt about that. The way it brings together so many resources in one package is fantastic. But here is my gripe with it: in my opinion, it is seriously overpriced. While for $350 one can get the full-fledged version of BibleWorks, the same price will get you only a most basic package of Verbum/Logos. I got a "clergy" package which I do like, but for close to $300 it doesn't even include the full text of the Hebrew Bible (only an interlinear Hebrew text). A $300 professional Bible program without a Hebrew Bible?! I couldn't believe it, especially considering that several free Bible programs available online include the Hebrew text of the OT. Moreover, I noticed that many (most?) of the resources in my package are public domain books that can be obtained for free online. Now I have been considering buying an upgrade to either Verbum Scripture Study, Master, or even Capstone, which contains an enormous quantity of resources. However, looking closely at the texts offered, it is hard not to feel a bit cheated by what seems like deceptive advertisement. Some examples: Kyle & Delitsch Commentary on the OT, "sold separately" by Logos: $119.95, online text: free; Ginzberg, Legends of the Jews, Logos: $79.95, Kindle: free; Summa Theologica: Logos $249.95, free online or $0.99 on Kindle. I know that Logos/Verbum does include lots of valuable resources that are worth their price, but looking at some of the advertised pricing and doing the math does not exactly inspire confidence or convince me that I will be getting my money's worth by spending hundreds or thousands of dollars. Advertise and set your prices more fairly, Logos/Verbum, and I will become a strong supporter. But until then... I think I will hold off further investments.