• According to Musicademy.com the reason why everyone loves singing in the bathroom is the “vibe” you get back from the room. . . "If the building has a natural reverb, the congregation get the “vibe” back from the venue and are encouraged to sing. Take that vibe away and people switch off. It’s not about how good the songs are, or how good [sic] the band are playing, or the quality of the sound mix; it’s the room that has the most profound psychological effect on congregational participation. . . . The real challenge is to find a balance in the venue: too much reverb and you will struggle for intelligibility in your spoken word and definition in contemporary music. Too little and the venue sounds flat and people will be discouraged from participating." [Musicademy.com/2014/05/church-sound-venue-reverb] I have two questions about this quotation: (1) Do you think it is accurate? (2) If it's accurate, how do we rate at SJMV, for sound quality?

    1. I think the acoustics of St. Johns are fine from the back of the congregation. The two side areas have acoustic issues, but really compared to Churches with no building, no PA or perhaps even instruments, I think we have a fantastic set-up. Not to say I'm against change to improve things, but hard to prioritise those needs above far more pressing ones in our world.

  • Someone in the church mentioned to me recently the words of verse 4 - of the lyrics of AMAZING GRACE (MY CHAINS) - are not accurate, if you look at 2 Peter 3: 9, where St Peter says that one day the "elements will melt with fervent heat," whereas the song says they will dissolve like snow - rather a contrast, don't you think? Also it says: "The earth shall SOON dissolve like snow The sun forbear to shine . . . " It's not going to happen for at least another thousand years (Rev. 20: 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7), which is not "soon," if you interpret the Text literally. One way to deal with the inaccuracy is to change the wording, as follows: "The earth will one day end its life, The sun forbear to shine . . ." etc. Well, at least it's more accurate !

    2. I suspect this debate could easily occupy a thousand years! However, I don't think God would be glorified by his creation spending their limited time on this old earth arguing about the accuracy of such vague and inherently relative words as "soon". Surely snow dissolves more rapidly than other substances even with minimal heat and as a I think the lyric just reminds us that our life in this world is but a moment in eternity. The sun shining being something which everyone naturally takes for granted is the perfect metaphor to wake us from our complacency that otherwise leads to taking our creator for granted.

    3. Whilst I don't disagree with Matt's well considered position on our resurrected bodies, I don't think the song lyrics attempt to deal with our resurrected form. In fact, it was the traditional version of the hymn which took the approach Matt objects to by including a verse that says "when this flesh and heart shall fail and mortal life shall cease". So, if anything, Matt should be advocating the modern version over the traditional!

    4. Yes, I also agree with Matt’s description of the resurrection life. You say there is a vex win the original hymn, which fits the other-worldlness, which Matt sees in the new verse 4. The stanza runs: Yes, when this flesh and heart shall fail, And mortal life shall cease, I shall possess within the veil, A life of joy and peace. Where’s the problem? St Paul says about the resurrection life, "For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. (1 Cor. 15: 53). When John Newton wrote, “This mortal life shall cease,” he was referring to our natural bodies crumbling in the dust, perhaps before Jesus returns. Our bodies are indeed “our mortal life,” but we have, says Paul (2 Cor. 5: 4) an immortal body prepared for us. "For we that are in this tabernacle do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life.” This will be like the body that Jesus had, when he arose. I don’t see either John Newton or Chris Tomlin disagreeing with that. Whether you think of it as an “otherworldly” perspective or not, it’s just plain fact. God said it; I believe it. Is the intermediate state disembodied, that is, between our death and our resurrection at the coming of Christ? Could there be an intermediate body state, for example Elijah and Moses appearing on the mount of Transfiguration? Perhaps John Newton would reply, “That’s too impractical to think about. I shall possess within the veil a life of joy and peace. What more do we need to know?"

  • I agree the default key of F is too high (unless you are Chris Tomlin). I used to play it in E and just got the high notes (but not on a cold morning), but dropped down to D as the piano players found 2 sharps easier than 4! I am reasonably comfortable with it in D and thought the congregation would be likewise (as my low range is quite limited). I can very easily go up to E and actually think my 12 string guitar sounds better with open E chords. I am happy to go back to E if we are sure the rest of the congregation can reach the high notes. Do any other St. John's musician's have any thoughts on the debate?

    1. > Hi Simon, > Which key to play “Amazing Grace (My chains)”? > Should it be in F? In my view, the reason the CCLI website chose F as the default key is: it makes the entire scope of the melody happily within the acknowledged range of a soprano voice (the men then have to sing an octave lower, and that’s OK for them too!). Like I said, Jane has a voice a little lower then soprano (semi-alto). So, she can’t reach the climax of the chorus, which in the key of F is a high F. > Should it be in E? You suggest settling for D, because if we go for E, a pianist may say, “Yikes! Four sharps! - too difficult!!” My view on that is, to say to pianists, “Let’s get practising, and accept the challenge of learning to play the keys across the keyboard, so to be able to choose the right key!” Guitarists have an advantage over pianists, in that ‘you guys’ simply play the same memorised finger shapes/patterns all over the finger board, irrespective of which key you play in. But, pianists have black notes (differently shaped from the white keys), and that simple fact makes the shapes more complicated. > Should it be in D? Problem: it starts the song 2 1/2 tones below the low end of a soprano voice. Thus, when the men, in their turn, sing an octave lower, a bass voice is OK with D - it can handle it - but a tenor voice cuts out at the low end. Again, it cuts out (for the tenor voice) 2 1/2 tones above that deep place, to which the music wants to take us. > Please don’t think I find it easy to play in four sharps. I don’t, but I aim to improve; let’s give the LORD the very best we have to offer. But, if it’s to be D - not a big deal. The one-time management guru said Lack of direction, not lack of time, is the problem. We all have twenty-four hour days.” Zig Ziglar:

    2. The CCLI default is generally the key it was written and recorded in. But when the original artist has a brilliant vocal range, some problems arise for the congregation: http://www.musicademy.com/2010/07/keys-for-worship-music/ We are not the first when it comes to struggling with Chris Tomlin - there seem to be dozens of articles posted by song leaders online and they all cite Chris Tomlin songs as the source of their struggle: http://www.worshipteamcoach.com/blog/2013/01/14/why-a-new-chris-tomlin-song-will-not-make-our-rotation But rather than focus on the problem, I think the most helpful article is this one from Bob Kauflin who I heard speak at the Sydney Twist music ministry conference in 2011: http://www.worshipmatters.com/2009/05/11/finding-the-right-key-to-sing-in/ I think my approach has largely come from accepting Bob's considered view on the topic, so hopefully you find it helpful. A shaky low note seems less distracting than a squeak at the top!

    3. The Music academy website looks brilliant. No doubt I shall find myself using it a lot, being more British oriented than American (cf. “WorshipteamCoach”). Andy says: “ . . . I’d suggest you have some round table discussions with your musicians and find out the real reasons why they don’t want to change the key before issuing a fait-a-complis saying that they must. … [S]ome of your musicians just may not have the skills yet to transpose or even play in some unfamiliar keys. If that is the case then a bit of give and take along with some music theory education will vastly help, along with lots of rehearsal time. All our intermediate DVD courses cover music theory and transposing thoroughly so if they need some help here is a good place to start.” Selah! I notice you said you changed the key for AMAZING GRACE (MY CHAINS) from E down to D, not because of congregational concerns but because the keyboardist eschewed the four sharps!!! Lack of (self) training, then, was the reason. Likewise, song leaders who avoid “too high” a key for themselves have not realised, it’s not lack of gift, but lack of training. (See “Per Bristow” online as proof of that). Anyway, on a Sunday morning we are song leading “with" the congregation, rather than “to" the congregation, so they should come first every time, in my view. Thanks, too, for introducing me to the Bob Kauflin article, which looks difficult to master, but, with detailed study and application . . !!!

  • Clive's message on key for singing Amazing Grace (My Chains) "We found singing Amazing Grace (My chains are gone) - in the default key of F - meant Jane had to stretch too high to reach the climax of the chorus. The ideal key for this song, ie for her voice, which is somewhere between alto and soprano - is E Major. Both the verse and the chorus is singable for her in E. You attached lead sheets in D, but this is too low. Do you try to avoid playing in E ? If so, we could settle for the default of F, and the congregation will just have to rise to the occasion!! I write at this juncture, in case it's a challenge to play in E, but would need additional practice time . Otherwise we should sing it in F, in my view."

    1. I'm looking for new melody, easy for the congregation to sing, which puts Biblical truths into words. Here's an awesome heavenly melody setting out the Christian's experience of the Holy Spirit (Romans 8): The music is by Roger Jones (English composer of Christian musicals) - please listen athttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ax2ln9gHxo. Music which makes you want to cry must be inspired!!

      1. Personally, I found the music a little elevator-like and think the key might be a bit high for a congregation to sing. However, I respect that we all have different tastes when it comes to the arrangement of music. The lyrics are great and I think it would work well for a choral arrangement. BTW, That same group recorded a slightly better version some months later...

      2. Hullo Simon, Thanks for listening to the Roger Jones’ music. I’ll spend the next few days wondering what you mean, when you call it “elevator-like” You seem to feel it is not particularly effective as a congregational song. This is the problem with art - there’s that strong subjective emotional element, which is so hard to pin down, in trying to explain why tasters differ. "An elevator (lift in British English) is a type of vertical transport equipment that efficiently moves people or goods between floors (levels, decks) of a building, vessel or other structure.” (wiki-). Could music do that as well? Like, two floors (earth and heaven), and the truths and melody of the song both lift us from one to the other?! Clive An I take it you mean

    2. [Continued from previous post] The objection that worshippers are looking at the words on a screen, not at the singers, is a red herring, where the lyrics are fairly well-known, and the singers are presenting the song/hymn in a way that attracts the congregation to notice both the spiritual message and the rhythm, and the melody. Spiritually minded lead singers are the key to effective worship in song.

      1. Lead singers make the congregation aware of their presence to the extent they are engaged with the spiritual meaning of the lyrics, the need for the congregation to be spiritually responsive, as well as following the melody. By their eye contact with the congregation they should, in my view, intentionally fulfil Paul’s description of effective corporate worship as “Speaking and admonishing one another in psalms and humans and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.” (Col. 3: 16). One more post to come on this topic

        1. May I put in a plea for more emphasis on the importance of singers to lead the congregation, rather than instrumentalists? When the guitar was last used. the accompanying singing was very effective. This is most unusual - to combine playing music with effective singing is a difficult art, and it escapes most instrumentalists. Do we not therefore need lead singers, who will provide what would otherwise be missing from congregational worship? See next post

          1. It was heartening to have the congregation applaud the song leading yesterday by Jess Morrison, Bernie Schaffler and the vocalists. It shows we are doing something right, as they say. My apologies for not checking the slides of ONLY BY GRACE. Now, that piano note that Jess had to hit on - in the lower register - is seriously dud. Seriously, seriously dud! Jesus is . . . musical.

            1. Is there only one note refusing to sound? Has anyone reported the particular problem to John or Mark so it can be looked at the next time the Piano tuner fellow is out? I wonder if it has been looked at on previous visits?

            2. I checked the piano keys this morning. There are in all five notes that are dud, all in the lower register - one of the five not so dud, but still debilitating for a pianist. What is the likelihood of Jess Morrison adjusting to and being willing to use the electronic keyboard? No problem for Sophie on that score, I suppose. How about selling the piano on e-bay (thus save piano tuning expenses!), which would leave more room for musicians to move around a small area. Later, include a discreet drum, a guitar player or two, plus singers near the organ (Move the organ so it faces the song leader?). Wonder what the Rector thinks about these proposals?

          2. Good Evening Musicians, I have today set-up some new speakers (sitting on the electric piano at present) as fold-back speakers so those on the music team can hear more clearly what is coming through the PA system. I was hoping to test them this afternoon, but there were flute lessons going on in the church and so had to contain the volume. I was also thinking about the layout of the music area and wondered if you had any ideas on how we could improve it?

            1. Excellent news about the fold-back speakers. As to the best use of space, I find the trad. upright piano is not a pleasant instrument to play. It doesn't bring out the best in the pianist, with one or two seriously dud notes in the lower register, and out of tune. Whereas the more modern keyboard is effortlessly in tune. The trad. piano may be taking up valuable space that could be used by other instrumentalists? Also, if the organ were placed between the sound system and the church wall - so the organist would be facing out toward the congregation - the organist would see the music leader (and singers) much more readily, and so have greater incentive to follow his/her lead.