Michael S. Heiser
Author • 9 members • 1,162 followers
About this group
- My question is: "If God foreknew the fall, and then God allowed it to occur, then doesn't it follow, he predestinated it, or as a minimum, he decreed it?"The Unseen Realm: Recovering the Supernatural Worldview of the BibleThis has significant implications for not only the fall, but the presence of evil in our world in general. God is not evil. There is no biblical reason to argue that God predestined the fall, though he foreknew it. There is no biblical reason to assert that God predestined all the evil events throughout human history simply because he foreknew them.
- Ward Tyler: That is an interesting question. It is a question I struggle with, and something that bothers me greatly about reformed theology. I would suggest that God's sovereign rule means what He desires to accomplish, will be done. God's sovereign Will was to create both spiritual and physical beings with Free Will that would Co-Rule with Him. This of course means the possibility of rebellion, and if we are talking free will for all eternity I would suggest certainty of rebellion. This is Why God had a plan through Christ from the beginning of creation for redemption. In short foreknowledge is not predestination. I can know that If I wake up late I will not get to eat breakfast. But when I wake up late I didn't predestine myself to not eat breakfast.
- Check out this entry from Heiser's blog, he also hits it in the podcast a few times I think.Predestination and Free Will: A Summary of The Naked Bible Position - Dr. Michael HeiserWell, I never figured that we’d be getting into this topic so early, but we did. I’m not going to post any more comments to the post that started all this; time to move on. However, I thought it would be advisable to post a summary of my thoughts on the subject for those who …drmsh.com
- J. Riley Corrigan: Thanks for the link. Whenever I can read about Heiser's ideas on different issues I read them.
- On p. 102 you say Gen 6.1-4 is a polemic. Would you consider this section of Genesis to be part of the original book edited by Moses or added later, say, after the Babylonian captivity?The Unseen Realm: Recovering the Supernatural Worldview of the BibleGenesis 6:1–4 is a polemic; it is a literary and theological effort to undermine the credibility of Mesopotamian gods and other aspects of that culture’s worldview.
- The 24 elders are clearly distinguished from the angels in Rev 5:11 and Rev 7:11. Why could not "His elders' refer to glorified believers ruling with YAHWEH OF HOSTS = JESUS CHRIST in Jerusalem during the Millennium?
- Thanks for writing this book. It is EXCELLENT. i learned so much from it. It is easy to read [with no distraction from the footnotes] and very well organized. The indices at the back are also EXCELLENT. I have noted [in my posts] some places where I disagreed with your point of view - but this book is a GREAT book and one which will be helpful to multitudes of Christians. I found a few typos [which I will try to let you know].
- "The World to Come" in the context of Hebrews is the Millennial Kingdom of Jesus Christ. I think this comment in The Grace New Testament Commentary is good: 2:5. In vv 5–9 the author reflects on God’s original plan for man, namely, for him to have dominion over His entire created order (cf. Gen 1:26–28). Though the fall of man (Genesis 3) undermined that plan, God will yet fulfill this future kingdom, which the author designates as the world to come. The Greek term for world (oikoumenē) is used in Ps 93:1 and 96:10 in the context of the Lord’s eschatological reign. This kingdom was not given to angels but to the Son to reign over (as further proof of His superiority). This kingdom is the same as that already introduced in chap. 1 (e.g., 1:8) in fulfillment of the Davidic Covenant promise of an eternal throne and kingdom (1:5). Tanner, J. P. (2010). The Epistle to the Hebrews. In R. N. Wilkin (Ed.), The Grace New Testament Commentary (p. 1038). Denton, TX: Grace Evangelical Society. Also, this comment on Heb 1:14 is relevant. 1:14. In contrast to the Son ruling at God’s right hand, the angels are ministering spirits. Unlike the Son whose destiny is King over an eternal throne-kingdom, the role of the angels is to minister, not reign. In fact, they minister to those who will inherit salvation. By salvation, our author is thinking not of our Lord’s saving work on the Cross, but a future salvation associated with His Second Coming (emphasized in chap. 1). This is quite clear in light of his use of “salvation” in 9:28, as well as his explicit mention in 2:5 of “the world to come.” Although there is a salvation for believers to inherit, this can be jeopardized by their neglect (2:3). Thus before p 1037 continuing the author will pause in 2:1–4 to warn his readers. Tanner, J. P. (2010). The Epistle to the Hebrews. In R. N. Wilkin (Ed.), The Grace New Testament Commentary (pp. 1036–1037). Denton, TX: Grace Evangelical Society.
- This statement "The council validates or enthusiastically endorses those who are in Christ who have endured in faith to the end." has some validity. . But the truth is that only those who "keep His works to the end" will actually reign with Christ [Rev 2:25 -28]. This is confirmed by Paul in 2 Tim 2:12. All who believe in Christ will be "with Him" in eternity [1 Thess 5:10] but only enduring believers will reign with Him.
- I believe you could have , perhaps, noted the powerful involvement of ANGELS in the book of Acts. See passage list ANGELS in Acts. This shows how extensively God used ANGELS to help the proclamation of the Gospel from the beginning to the end of this book. I think it is a fulfillment of what Jesus said to Nathaniel in John 1:50-51. Nathaniel [as one of the TWELVE] would see THE SEED OF ABRAHAM established [with enablement by angels] in the book of Acts.
- See passage list SAINTS in the O.T. In my opinion, almost all of the references are to BELIEVERS. In Daniel, it is very clear that the SAINTS will inherit the Kingdom of Jesus Christ, the Messiah. [e. g. Dan 7:27]. Note, also the passage list SAINTS in Revelation. There SAINTS refers to THOSE WHO RULE WITH JESUS CHRIST [e. g. Rev 14:12, 19:8, 20:6] Also, the SAINTS will be WITH HIM when He returns to earth to reign [Rev 17:14, 19:14]Angels: What the Bible Really Says about God’s Heavenly HostThe term qedōšı̂m may be used to describe people (Ps 16:3; Dan 8:24), but it is more often used of spirit beings in Yahweh’s service (Deut 33:2–3; Job 5:1; Zech 14:5; Dan 4:17)
- 19 “A little while longer and the world will see Me no more, but you will see Me. Because I live, you will live also. 20 At that day you will know that I am in My Father, and you in Me, and I in you. 21 He who has My commandments and keeps them, it is he who loves Me. And he who loves Me will be loved by My Father, and I will love him and manifest Myself to him.” When I got to chapter 18, I am puzzled at the conclusion. I can envisage an alternative, which works better for me. So I am going to try it out on you haha. There is an Angel of YAHWEH. There is a YAHWEH. There is a Jesus - thank God!! haha. I have a not insignificant gifting in spiritual discernment, seeing, knowing and operate accordingly with the LORD and my Lord to heal and deliver. 'my Name is in him'. YAHWEH sends His Angel. (He probably has a few). He, YAHWEH, has a constant and direct cord connecting Him via highways of holiness - we would call it the grid - to the Angel - continuously if He YAHWEH so desires. The cord is such that He, YAHWEH, can speak to the Angel - 'Thus says the LORD', or He YAHWEH can take over the Angel and become his direct voice - YAHWEH speaks directly. If He, YAHWEH, so desires, He can translate across the highway of holiness and be present, manifested, in the Angel. Phillip translated, Jesus translated in this manner. It's the ultimate Facetime. The Seven Eyes of the LORD are in the Angel, the newagers call them Chakra Points haha. YAHWEH does not necessarily have to be manifested at a place to be in full cognisance of the surroundings, and instant interaction. He can choose, depending upon the moment and its significance. (He YAHWEH sent His angels down to take a look at Sodom. (He had to 'go', He wasn't there yet)). He YAHWEH can switch modes, be there, not be there, speak as Himself, because He can, speak through the Angel as messenger, because He can. But He YAHWEH, can also be in the Angel manifested. Stand back when He does that!. You can see it on anointed men of God. There is a shift in the Spirit of God, who is in them. The Spirit moves beyond the physical form of the human. You can discern the presence of God, because it is real. You can discern the flesh if it is not the Spirit of God speaking and see the difference in the realms when the Spirit of God is silent. He didn't go away, He slipped back into His own realm. He's in him, but not active. Praise God I am seated in heavenly places, with my Jesus, whilst simultaneously being on earth, toeing into the waters of theology haha. Jesus can be used just like the Angel of YAHWEH in this context. He is so directly connected to the Father, by a highway of holiness, a silver cord perhaps, which cannot be broken, cannot be corrupted, cannot be invaded. What you have written is profound for me. Forgive me for finding what appears to be a slightly different conclusion to your analysis and piecing together of the jigsaw puzzle. Jesus, Elijah, Melchizedek, are unique individuals, gods, but with such a powerful cord of connection to the Father, then they are the Father, when the Father so chooses. They can carry His YAHWEH's entrusted authority and release His power. Blessings Simon TThe Unseen Realm: Recovering the Supernatural Worldview of the BibleThe most familiar way to process what we’ve seen is to think about the way we talk about Jesus. Christians affirm that God is more than one Person, but that each of those Persons is the same in essence. We affirm that Jesus is one of those Persons. He is God. But in another respect, Jesus isn’t God—he is not the Father. The Father is not the Son, and the Son is not the Father. Nevertheless, they are the same in essence. This theology did not originate in the New Testament. You’ve now
- How is it that pre-flood Nephilim can have living descendents in the post-flood era when only Noah & his family were saved?Supernatural: What the Bible Teaches about the Unseen World—And Why It MattersThey are specifically said to be living descendants of the Nephilim—the offspring of the sons of God back in Genesis 6:1–4.
- There were no descendants alive after the flood. That poor scout was freaked out with what he saw, and was exaggerating from stories he had been told.
Warren Dane — EditedYour comment on pg. 191 TUR the option 2 of the translation of Gen 6:4 is IMO a reasonable approach to the appearance of the giants related to the Nephilim that are indicated in later scripture accounts. It also explains the reason these "giant" clans were devoted to destruction at Yahweh's command. "The 'when' in the verse could be translated 'whenever,' thereby suggesting a repetition of these preflood events after the flood. In other words, since Genesis 6:4 points forward to the later giant clans, the phrasing could suggest that other sons of God fathered more Nephilim after the flood. As a result, there would be no survival of original Nephilim, and so the post-flood dilemma would be resolved. A later appearance of other Nephilim occurred by the same means as before the flood. The whole issue of a response to the Mediterranean worldview by the biblical writer of Genesis (Moses in my view) does make sense. Moses, educated in the household of Pharaoh would have been aware of that worldview and under the influence of the Holy Spirit dealt with it. Thanks for your careful exegetical comments on the matter of Rephaim, Anakim and Nephilim existing before and after the flood.