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He nailed the 5 D’s. Most of the folks I have talked to about it (myself included) fit into 2 or 3 of those categories. Interested to see where he takes it.

I’m still on the fence about starting it.

Concerning the podcast, https://religiondispatches.org/sharing-many-of-the-same-flaws-as-its-subject-the-rise-and-fall-of-mars-hill-podcast-puts-blame-anywhere-but-where-it-belongs/?fbclid=IwAR1QiDkz-M_UjGPsOWMNkIhfjhxjR8g72UXGSBiVg0MSOiZlVQN5puAiztU

She gets at some of my frustration. Obviously Mars Hill and Driscoll are the focus but, so far, Cosper hasn’t addressed the bigger issues like why this happened in the first place at many other churches.

Ugh... Angela, I am so sorry to hear this. I have experienced this more times in my life than should ever be allowed. I hate it. As I thought about your question, I realized I can't recall having a specific "method" for dealing with these. Honestly, it's probably because every time it happens I hope it will never happen again. That said, I thought about several of them and looked for some consistent things I did (even if they weren't planned to be). Here are some things that came to mind: - I talked about it with someone/people I trust. I tend to keep this circle small and to people I know will listen and pray with/for me. And when I say pray, I mean like right then and there, not just say, "I will be praying for you." I have included a professional therapist in some of these instances. - I let myself lament the tragedy. I acknowledged and kept accepting (rarely a one and done thing) that the situation was horrible. I let myself be angry at people who wronged others. I let myself be sad for the victims. I reminded myself over and over that God is angry at the injustice and mourns for the victims too. - I prayed for everyone involved. This usually starts pretty rough and gets better over time. I usually start because I know it's the right thing to do more than because I feel like it. However, as time goes on I find myself longing to pray more (even for those who wronged). I wouldn't say, "This is the way to do it," but these are things I have done fairly consistently. I haven't done this as consistently, but I have also soaked myself in the book of Lamentations at times and I have a specific worship playlist I have made that I will just listen to on repeat. Now that I am actually thinking about this like a "process," I should probably add those to my personal list. Although, I am hoping it never happens again, so maybe I shouldn't plan for it 😉.

Yes, I think each experience of this sort of betrayal is so unique that a set of actions may not apply to every experience, but I really appreciate what you’ve suggested. Thank you for sharing, Mike!

I haven't really studied these theories much, but I have a few thoughts on the front end. First, because the Bible is basically silent about the years between his childhood and the start of his ministry, it creates a blank canvas for anyone to offer any theory. And it's no surprise that there are theories of him showing up in just about every corner of the known world at the time, from England to India to Japan. That seems not unlike myths that emerged about certain relics, like one town having a piece of wood from the cross. These stories seem unlikely to me, although they would be nearly impossible to disprove. As for the stories of him surviving the crucifixion and traveling, I would reject those altogether. I'd love to hear what you discover if you press further though.

I have only minimally looked into these theories. I became a bit frustrated by them hoping for good scholarship only to find speculation and anecdotal evidence at best. That's not to say there is not anything more scholarly out there now, but when I was looking about 15 years ago I struggled to find anything substantive. I have read some works on Jesus' early years that I have enjoyed but they are still mostly piecing together assumptions based on what we can in fact historically account for. Like Sean, I would reject anything denying the crucifixion and death of Jesus without serious evidence that has undergone the many rigorous academic processes (e.g., historical, theological, peer review, etc.). Obviously, this would do great violence to the Christian faith and the gospel we know. Therefore, while I am always open to learn something I do not know, I would come at this with great scrutiny. Please do share if you come across anything worth noting!

Tha is for the responses Sean and Mike! I will certainly let you know if I find out more. I'm in a bit of the same boat as you both that I almost don't even want to read the book because I would reject it and it's pretty much wholesale rejected by scholars.

This is excellent. More evangelicals need to understand that there are "machines" shaping the culture of evangelicalism. We need to be aware of what is driving those machines and in what direction. I agree with their conclusions (around 49m), but they say nothing about our current Covid-19 moment where we are all distanced. It feels a little disconnected of a statement given everyone is trying their best to figure out how to be their community online.

I just finished listening to this. It articulated so much of what I've experienced growing up in church (and Christian schools.) For the past year or so I've struggled to comb through what's Biblical truth vs. what's been spoon fed to me by Christian leaders, teachers, my parents, and other authority figures. It's helpful to put a term to this system instead of blaming individuals (not that some shouldn't be held accountable.) It's also scary to hear how pastors feel so pressured to grow their social media platform. I can't quite remember how the lady at the beginning (Ingrid?) phrased it, but she pointed out that certain pastors are getting speaking engagements, books published, etc., based on their online following, size of their congregation, and not based on their character and real fruit from their lives. Really disturbing. I'd never ever thought about my own role in fueling the EIC and would like to explore that. It'd also be helpful to hear how to just start conversations with others who seem to be blindly caught up in the EIC, as well as with those who claim to have "defected" or "deconstructed" and are no longer a part of the Church.

I felt so grateful to be apart of Church of the Desert while listening to this. I could see how many well-meaning churches and leaders can be sucked into this if they aren't aware or activity fighting against it. I am glad there is an awareness and intentionality here at COTD <3

I'm about halfway through it now. Love the way she tracks the progression and it’s key players, as frustrating as each situation is.

Hi! How can I become a member?

Done. maybe write something for people about the difference between "follower" and "member"? I'm not sure I know enough to be helpful.